Yes, but I know I end up with 45 or 50 year old apprentices.
Now, I haven't said there are easy answers to these questions.
9. Sandy Collings - Eurocan Pulp, Kitimat
Just a comment, I sit on one of the Trades Advisory Committee's for Millwrights and there is an agenda on some parts of that committee. for compulsory certification which flies in the face of all the things that we have negotiated. Right now there is one on the books for compulsory certification for the millwrights that is at the 1'AB level, and it has still made it there for the time being, but this is just a comment that it's been applied to what we are trying to accomplish here. This year they closed the door on TQ's for steam fitting/pipefitting. You can no longer get a steam fitting/pipefitting ticket without a recognized apprenticeship. And they are very restrictive.
Yes I am aware of what is happening in Victoria and we have made some representation from my level, and from industries level, but particularly from people that are worried about where that will take us - to make sure that the lobby groups that are pushing that initiative don't succeed.
The IBEW succeeded fairly well with Electrical.
Yes, they did. And there is a letter to Claude Haywood, the Deputy Minister, right now from the Trade Advisory Committee effort.
I deal with Claude Haywood on a regular basis. Claude Haywood at the time that letter was written (I know because I was consulted about the letter) was betwixt and between because we had just changed ministers; we didn't know what was happening with the Government. All those things were dimensions that were there. Now that we have 5 more years, I can tell you that those conversations will be come-over in Victoria by ourselves. With the people that are looking at those initiatives that we are not